Where do the Remains of Carrie Terry Warner Actually Reside? (Part 1)

(photo done using ChatGPT)

As genealogist we have questions about our ancestors and we search for the answers.  When the answers come, we are happy and we move on to the next question to answer.  Every once in a while, we have questions we just can’t seem to find the answer to.  The question may continue to gnaw at us even though we know there probably never will be an answer.  Why is it that there are some questions that we just can’t let go of?  We know realistically that there is so much about our ancestors we will never know but there is that one question that we just can’t let go of!  Well, I had such an experience but finally found the answer in the most unusual place.  What a sense of relief to finally find the answer to a question that others may never care about but for some unknown reason was very important to me.  This was a question about my paternal great grandmother Carrie Terry Warner that I just couldn’t let go of.  Where is Carrie’s final resting place?  

Known facts:

• Carrie's husband John purchased a cemetery plot on 4 Jun 1902 in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery, Baiting Hollow, New York.  

• Carrie Terry Warner (my paternal great grandmother) passed away suddenly on 2 Jun 1910 of Apoplexy.
• According to one of Carrie’s obituaries she was buried on 5 Jun 1902 in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery.

• A few years after Carrie passed her husband moved to a nearby area, Aquebogue, with the younger boys until his passing ten years later in June 1920.  There is a cemetery stone in the Aquebogue Cemetery with John and Carrie’s names on it.  But a genealogist knows that a cemetery stone doesn’t necessarily mean someone was buried there.  After all, Carrie died ten years earlier and was buried in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery.

in Aquebogue Cemetery

I have walked the cemetery at Baiting Hollow for years in search of Carrie’s burial spot.  In researching the records for the cemetery, I found the records for the older part of the cemetery are gone and Suffolk County maps are not available for the older section of the cemetery either.  After reading Carrie’s Letters (see tab marked Carrie’s Letters) over and over as I compiled the book of her letters, I could never accept the fact that her husband John did not put a headstone for his beloved wife at the Baiting Hollow cemetery.  So, I continued to search.  One day when discussing this with a cousin (also a great grandchild of Carrie’s) I heard a family story.  The story was that John wanted to have Carrie’s body moved to the Aquebogue Cemetery, close to where he lived, but when they went to move her coffin there was nothing left to move.  I just couldn't let this end without confirmation so I continued to research.  Family stories may not be exactly true but usually there is at least a thread of truth in the story that has been passed down.  Could a body/coffin be moved in the early 1900s, if so, what did it take?  I learned there would have to be a court order even then.  So, I searched and still found nothing…until recently.

Another cousin of mine (also a great grandchild of Carrie’s) happens to own a local tombstone business in the town I grew up in and where my paternal ancestral line lived for hundreds of years.  While we were talking one day about the business, he happened to mention that he had found old ledgers at the business, upstairs in an attic, left from the previous owner’s time.  He said along with orders for tombstones there were drawings of tombstones.  WOW!! I’m sure you can imagine my excitement about the value of such ledgers for genealogical reasons.  Imagine some of the old tombstones that are unreadable.  Perhaps in these ledgers there would be the answers to reading old tombstones.  Could I possibly learn anything about my ancestors from these ledgers?

Yes, it can be difficult to be a cousin of mine when I am on a mission and I think they might be able to help me.  I asked my cousin if I could look at the ledgers because I had some family questions I was hoping to find the answers to.  I tried to be very patient waiting for him to have the time to get the ledgers down when I was in town and allow me to see them.  Finally, the day came when he said he had pulled some of the ledgers for me and he found some things (and he marked the pages even) he thought I’d be interested in.  And oh, my goodness what a find!  

More to follow in Part 2 of this story.  See tab on Home page marked Carrie’s Letters for additional stories about Carrie.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

The Children of Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement

 

As I begin to piece together the lives of my ancestors I am continually searching for additional records. Records of their lives and that of their children can help me better  understand the family.  Locating all the records possible of the children of Jacob and Barbara (maternal 3^rd great grandparents) helps me see their family structure.  This may also help me piece together some of the family dynamics and what may have led to my maternal 2^nd great grandfather Jacob (see posts The Birth of Jacob Hamman, My First Naturalization Papers-Jacob Hamman, Searching for the Will and the Land of Jacob Hamman, Tombstone Tuesday-Jacob Hamman, etc,) deciding to emigrate to the United States.

These records, from Luxembourg, found in German and now translated, help tell the story of my 3^rd great grandparents, Jakob Hamman and Barbara Clement, and their children. 

Children:

1825 Frederic Birth

(click on images to enlarge)

1828 Elisabeth Birth

1830 Peter Birth

 1831 Joseph Birth

     1832 Peter Death

1834 Mary Birth

1836 Catherine Birth

     1837 Mary Death

1838 John Birth

1840 Jacob Birth (my 2nd great grandfather)  

1844 Nicholas Birth

     1850 Nicholas Death

     1867 Joseph Death

     1868 Mother-Barbara Clement Hamman Death

     1876 Elisabeth Death   

The records were all created in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, then under evolving administrative structures following its independence in 1815.

 

Family Insights:

• Nine children were born to Jacob and Barbara (6 boys & 3 girls) between 1825 and 1844.  Three died in early childhood (Peter, Mary, Nicholas).
• Elisabeth (48) and Joseph (34) lived to adulthood but appear to have remained unmarried.
• Jacob (born 1840), my paternal 2^nd great grandfather, was the 8^th child.  When he was 10, after the death of the longest child Nicholas, he became the youngest again.  Jacob emigrated to the United States, continuing the family line. I am always interested in seeing names repeated over generations.  My 2nd great grandfather Jacob would have children named Jacob, Nicholas, John, Joseph and Peter.  I wonder if they were named after his siblings?
• Jakob Hamman, my maternal 3^rd great grandfather, may have emigrated as well, as suggested by Elisabeth’s death record noting her father’s emigration to America.  

The family lived primarily in Pfaffenthal and later Hesperange in Luxembourg.  (distance of about 35 miles apart). The father’s consistent occupation and locations suggest stable residence and modest working-class status.

Questions to research:

• How many of the four remaining children emigrated to America?
• I will need to check census records to see if Elisabeth and Joseph lived with their parents in adulthood?
• Did my 3^rd great grandfather Jacob actually emigrate to America also?  What can I learn about his life in America?   I have been unable to find any death record for him in Luxembourg.  Where did he live and die?

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

The Marriage of Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement

After years of searching for records in Luxembourg I have found many of the family records I thought I’d never find and so many more. A mystery until 2024 when I learned Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement were the parents listed on the birth record of my maternal 2^nd great grandfather, also named Jacob Hamman (b 1840). Next the search to find a marriage record.

The marriage record of my 3^rd great grandparents was finally located and translated from German:

                                                (click on image to enlarge)

Translation from German:

In the year 1824 on 8 September at six in the evening, before us Mayor, registrar of the civil status records of the municipality of Luxembourg, Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, have appeared Jacob Hamann, day laborer, aged 22 years, born in Luxembourg on 16 pluviôse year 10 of the Republic (=5 February 1802), as noted in record delivered by us, residing in Luxembourg, major son of the late Sabastian Hamann, retired military, residing in this municipality where he died on 24 February 1814, as noted in record delivered by us, and of Barbara Raipmann, widow of the above-mentioned Sebastian Hamann, without profession, residing in this municipality, here present and consenting. Finally, the future husband states by certificate that he has complied with the militia law,

And Barbara Clement, without profession, aged 23 years, born in Bissen, in the month of May 1801, as evidenced by record of notoriety set up in front of the justice of peace of Luxembourg 10 Aug 1804, residing in Luxembourg, major daughter of Francis Clement, day laborer, and of Elizabeth May, married couple, both residing in this city, here present and consenting.

Who requested us to proceed to the celebration of the marriage agreed amongst them and the publications of which have been done, namely in Luxembourg on the Sundays 29^th of last August and 5^th present September, at the hour of noon.

Having not been notified of any opposition to said marriage, we do justice to their request, after having given lecture of all the above mentioned documents and of Chapter 6 of the Civil Code, bearing the title “Of Marriage”, we have asked the future spouses, whether they take each other as husband and wife, each one of them having answered separately and affirmatively, we declare in the name of the law that Jacob Hamann and Barbara Clement are united by marriage.

Of all this we have set up record in the presence of the witnesses enumerated below, namely:

Of Francis Reuter, aged 50 years, weaver, residing in Luxembourg

Of Martin Zangerlé, aged 38 years, low wage worker[1], residing in Luxembourg

Of Dominic Jusion(?), aged 67 years, messenger/delivery man, residing in Luxembourg

And of Frederic Wirtgen, aged 28 years, nail smith, residing in Luxembourg.

Who after also having been given lecture, have signed with us and the contracting parties, with the exception of the bride, her father and mother, and the mother of the groom, who have declared to be ignorant of writing.

Done at the Hotel de Régence [designation of City Hall at that time] on the day, month and year as above.

Translators note: As per article 70 of the Cicil Code, the bridal couple has to submit a birth record in order to get married. In some cases, those births were not documented, which happened frequently at the time of the introduction of the law on the civil records. For this eventuality article 70 provided that in order to replace such missing record an “acte de notoriété” had to be set up by the justice of peace. In accordance to article 71 of said Code a declaration of seven persons testified about the identity of the individual concerned and that is/was of public notoriety that such individual was born on the date of xxx in the locality yyy and was the child of the parents fff and mmm. That declaration was then signed by the deponents and the justice of peace]

Wow, I now have not only the marriage record of my 3^rd great grandparents but I also know the names of four of my 4^th great grandparents. This record tells me where they were all living and the occupations of all the men.  How fascinating to see the careers of my ancestors in 1824.  I also now know that I will probably not be able to find an actual record of Barbara’s birth.  Luxembourg has such wonderful records and how great that I was able to locate these on FamilySearch.

Now to learn more about the family of Jacob and Barbara.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

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