Finally...Question Answered! Where do the Remains of Carrie Terry Warner Actually Reside? (Part 2)

 The Ledger

(click on images to enlarge)

Waiting is never an easy thing to do when you know a particular record could hold the answer to a question you are just unable to let go of and you need to wait to see that record.  In Where do the Remains of Carrie Terry Warner Actually Reside? (Part 1) a review was made of all known information about where my paternal great grandmother Carrie Terry Warner was buried and about the family story.  I learned about old ledgers that existed at my cousin's tombstone business from the previous owner.  I hoped these records might hold answers to my nagging question.

The day had finally come and here the ledgers were in front of me.  Finally being able to see and hold the ledgers was so exciting!  My cousin had marked pages he thought I'd be interested in so it was time to see if they actually did hold the answer I was looking for.

The first thing to always look for is an index:

Reminder:  When you are looking at an Index be sure you understand how the Index is set up. While names are all "W" names, they were added as services were ordered.  The names are not listed alphabetically.

The following entry is dated June 15, 1915.   Page 348

OK, the question I had about Carrie having a headstone is now answered!  There was a headstone and this is what it was to look like, it was to be made out of blue marble and cost $12.00.  The date the headstone was ordered is now known and the bill was to go to Carrie & John's eldest son Terry, who at the time resided in Watermill, NY.  Why was the bill being sent to him instead of his father John? I have no idea.  Perhaps Terry was in charge of taking care of this for John and his brothers?  (Terry would have been 22 years old, married and a father at the time.)  I also know that the headstone was for the Baiting Hollow Cemetery which is where Carrie was buried after her death in 1910.  

With additional searching another entry was located.  Be careful!  As I reviewed the pages in the Index I found that the listing is not always under the name of the person that died.  Sometimes the listing is under the name of the person who ordered or paid for the service, in this case Carrie's husband John.  That definitely changes my searching method for future entries.

The following entry is dated June 4, 1910.  Page 236

This is the order for Carrie's funeral.  Wow!  I did not know until this 'find' that the business that was in charge of the headstones was also in charge of the funeral, etc.  

Transcription:

To Silver gray half couch casket and chestnut box for Carrie T. Warner dec'd.

Laying out & Embalming body

Use of chairs

White dress

Hearse

Attendance w/funeral

Pillow of flowers word Mother

(images made using Copilot)

What a wealth of information about my great grandmother's funeral.  Carrie was buried in a new white dress, they used a hearse, the cost in 1910 was $167.00 and there was a pillow of flowers with the word Mother from her six sons.  Again, my heart breaks when I think about my paternal grandfather who was only five years old when this was happening.

But there was still no answer to the question -Where do Carrie's remains actually reside?  Hmm...  Well, I am so grateful for what I have learned but this did not answer that gnawing question.

While I was looking at the ledgers I decided to look for Carrie's husband (my great grandfather) John's funeral and perhaps the headstone that is at the Aquebogue Cemetery. John's funeral was listed.

The following entry is dated June 23, 1920:

Transcription of highlighted area:

Opening grave

Moving body of wife deceased

WOW!! After all these years.  Finally, there is the answer I have been searching for!  Carrie's remains were removed from the Baiting Hollow Cemetery and moved to the Aquebogue Cemetery.  Payment would not have been made had they been unable to move her.  The story I had heard was partially true...her body was moved to the cemetery alongside her husband.

The order for the headstone that is in the Aquebogue Cemetery was also located.  

The following entry is dated October 10, 1921

Payment for the stone was made by Carrie & John's son J. Wesley Warner.  At this time John Wesley was 31 years old and married.  Perhaps he was the spokesman for the brothers?

Whatever happened to Carrie's original headstone in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery?  I have no idea.  Did one of the sons take it after she was moved to the Aquebogue Cemetery? Perhaps.  Was the headstone recycled somehow or just discarded?  I have no idea but I do wonder about this.

The journey to find the answer to my nagging question about where actually my paternal great grandmother is buried has taken many years with several interesting twists and turns.  Looking beyond the commonly found records, often available online, is not always easy to do but if you take the time to search, it's amazing to see what you may find.  Constantly asking people in the area about records has led me to finding records I never would have thought to ask for or that I would be even able to locate.  There are so many records out there that we don't even know exist.  As genealogists we should pursue getting these lesser known records scanned and saved for other researchers and future generations.  If you have any suggestions on who to contact at FamilySearch, Ancestry, My Heritage, or anywhere else, please let me know.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

Where do the Remains of Carrie Terry Warner Actually Reside? (Part 1)

(photo done using ChatGPT)

As genealogist we have questions about our ancestors and we search for the answers.  When the answers come, we are happy and we move on to the next question to answer.  Every once in a while, we have questions we just can’t seem to find the answer to.  The question may continue to gnaw at us even though we know there probably never will be an answer.  Why is it that there are some questions that we just can’t let go of?  We know realistically that there is so much about our ancestors we will never know but there is that one question that we just can’t let go of!  Well, I had such an experience but finally found the answer in the most unusual place.  What a sense of relief to finally find the answer to a question that others may never care about but for some unknown reason was very important to me.  This was a question about my paternal great grandmother Carrie Terry Warner that I just couldn’t let go of.  Where is Carrie’s final resting place?  

Known facts:

• Carrie's husband John purchased a cemetery plot on 4 Jun 1902 in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery, Baiting Hollow, New York.  

• Carrie Terry Warner (my paternal great grandmother) passed away suddenly on 2 Jun 1910 of Apoplexy.
• According to one of Carrie’s obituaries she was buried on 5 Jun 1902 in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery.

• A few years after Carrie passed her husband moved to a nearby area, Aquebogue, with the younger boys until his passing ten years later in June 1920.  There is a cemetery stone in the Aquebogue Cemetery with John and Carrie’s names on it.  But a genealogist knows that a cemetery stone doesn’t necessarily mean someone was buried there.  After all, Carrie died ten years earlier and was buried in the Baiting Hollow Cemetery.

in Aquebogue Cemetery

I have walked the cemetery at Baiting Hollow for years in search of Carrie’s burial spot.  In researching the records for the cemetery, I found the records for the older part of the cemetery are gone and Suffolk County maps are not available for the older section of the cemetery either.  After reading Carrie’s Letters (see tab marked Carrie’s Letters) over and over as I compiled the book of her letters, I could never accept the fact that her husband John did not put a headstone for his beloved wife at the Baiting Hollow cemetery.  So, I continued to search.  One day when discussing this with a cousin (also a great grandchild of Carrie’s) I heard a family story.  The story was that John wanted to have Carrie’s body moved to the Aquebogue Cemetery, close to where he lived, but when they went to move her coffin there was nothing left to move.  I just couldn't let this end without confirmation so I continued to research.  Family stories may not be exactly true but usually there is at least a thread of truth in the story that has been passed down.  Could a body/coffin be moved in the early 1900s, if so, what did it take?  I learned there would have to be a court order even then.  So, I searched and still found nothing…until recently.

Another cousin of mine (also a great grandchild of Carrie’s) happens to own a local tombstone business in the town I grew up in and where my paternal ancestral line lived for hundreds of years.  While we were talking one day about the business, he happened to mention that he had found old ledgers at the business, upstairs in an attic, left from the previous owner’s time.  He said along with orders for tombstones there were drawings of tombstones.  WOW!! I’m sure you can imagine my excitement about the value of such ledgers for genealogical reasons.  Imagine some of the old tombstones that are unreadable.  Perhaps in these ledgers there would be the answers to reading old tombstones.  Could I possibly learn anything about my ancestors from these ledgers?

Yes, it can be difficult to be a cousin of mine when I am on a mission and I think they might be able to help me.  I asked my cousin if I could look at the ledgers because I had some family questions I was hoping to find the answers to.  I tried to be very patient waiting for him to have the time to get the ledgers down when I was in town and allow me to see them.  Finally, the day came when he said he had pulled some of the ledgers for me and he found some things (and he marked the pages even) he thought I’d be interested in.  And oh, my goodness what a find!  

More to follow in Part 2 of this story.  See tab on Home page marked Carrie’s Letters for additional stories about Carrie.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

The Children of Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement

 

As I begin to piece together the lives of my ancestors I am continually searching for additional records. Records of their lives and that of their children can help me better  understand the family.  Locating all the records possible of the children of Jacob and Barbara (maternal 3^rd great grandparents) helps me see their family structure.  This may also help me piece together some of the family dynamics and what may have led to my maternal 2^nd great grandfather Jacob (see posts The Birth of Jacob Hamman, My First Naturalization Papers-Jacob Hamman, Searching for the Will and the Land of Jacob Hamman, Tombstone Tuesday-Jacob Hamman, etc,) deciding to emigrate to the United States.

These records, from Luxembourg, found in German and now translated, help tell the story of my 3^rd great grandparents, Jakob Hamman and Barbara Clement, and their children. 

Children:

1825 Frederic Birth

(click on images to enlarge)

1828 Elisabeth Birth

1830 Peter Birth

 1831 Joseph Birth

     1832 Peter Death

1834 Mary Birth

1836 Catherine Birth

     1837 Mary Death

1838 John Birth

1840 Jacob Birth (my 2nd great grandfather)  

1844 Nicholas Birth

     1850 Nicholas Death

     1867 Joseph Death

     1868 Mother-Barbara Clement Hamman Death

     1876 Elisabeth Death   

The records were all created in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, then under evolving administrative structures following its independence in 1815.

 

Family Insights:

• Nine children were born to Jacob and Barbara (6 boys & 3 girls) between 1825 and 1844.  Three died in early childhood (Peter, Mary, Nicholas).
• Elisabeth (48) and Joseph (34) lived to adulthood but appear to have remained unmarried.
• Jacob (born 1840), my paternal 2^nd great grandfather, was the 8^th child.  When he was 10, after the death of the longest child Nicholas, he became the youngest again.  Jacob emigrated to the United States, continuing the family line. I am always interested in seeing names repeated over generations.  My 2nd great grandfather Jacob would have children named Jacob, Nicholas, John, Joseph and Peter.  I wonder if they were named after his siblings?
• Jakob Hamman, my maternal 3^rd great grandfather, may have emigrated as well, as suggested by Elisabeth’s death record noting her father’s emigration to America.  

The family lived primarily in Pfaffenthal and later Hesperange in Luxembourg.  (distance of about 35 miles apart). The father’s consistent occupation and locations suggest stable residence and modest working-class status.

Questions to research:

• How many of the four remaining children emigrated to America?
• I will need to check census records to see if Elisabeth and Joseph lived with their parents in adulthood?
• Did my 3^rd great grandfather Jacob actually emigrate to America also?  What can I learn about his life in America?   I have been unable to find any death record for him in Luxembourg.  Where did he live and die?

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

The Marriage of Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement

After years of searching for records in Luxembourg I have found many of the family records I thought I’d never find and so many more. A mystery until 2024 when I learned Jacob Hamman and Barbara Clement were the parents listed on the birth record of my maternal 2^nd great grandfather, also named Jacob Hamman (b 1840). Next the search to find a marriage record.

The marriage record of my 3^rd great grandparents was finally located and translated from German:

                                                (click on image to enlarge)

Translation from German:

In the year 1824 on 8 September at six in the evening, before us Mayor, registrar of the civil status records of the municipality of Luxembourg, Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, have appeared Jacob Hamann, day laborer, aged 22 years, born in Luxembourg on 16 pluviôse year 10 of the Republic (=5 February 1802), as noted in record delivered by us, residing in Luxembourg, major son of the late Sabastian Hamann, retired military, residing in this municipality where he died on 24 February 1814, as noted in record delivered by us, and of Barbara Raipmann, widow of the above-mentioned Sebastian Hamann, without profession, residing in this municipality, here present and consenting. Finally, the future husband states by certificate that he has complied with the militia law,

And Barbara Clement, without profession, aged 23 years, born in Bissen, in the month of May 1801, as evidenced by record of notoriety set up in front of the justice of peace of Luxembourg 10 Aug 1804, residing in Luxembourg, major daughter of Francis Clement, day laborer, and of Elizabeth May, married couple, both residing in this city, here present and consenting.

Who requested us to proceed to the celebration of the marriage agreed amongst them and the publications of which have been done, namely in Luxembourg on the Sundays 29^th of last August and 5^th present September, at the hour of noon.

Having not been notified of any opposition to said marriage, we do justice to their request, after having given lecture of all the above mentioned documents and of Chapter 6 of the Civil Code, bearing the title “Of Marriage”, we have asked the future spouses, whether they take each other as husband and wife, each one of them having answered separately and affirmatively, we declare in the name of the law that Jacob Hamann and Barbara Clement are united by marriage.

Of all this we have set up record in the presence of the witnesses enumerated below, namely:

Of Francis Reuter, aged 50 years, weaver, residing in Luxembourg

Of Martin Zangerlé, aged 38 years, low wage worker[1], residing in Luxembourg

Of Dominic Jusion(?), aged 67 years, messenger/delivery man, residing in Luxembourg

And of Frederic Wirtgen, aged 28 years, nail smith, residing in Luxembourg.

Who after also having been given lecture, have signed with us and the contracting parties, with the exception of the bride, her father and mother, and the mother of the groom, who have declared to be ignorant of writing.

Done at the Hotel de Régence [designation of City Hall at that time] on the day, month and year as above.

Translators note: As per article 70 of the Cicil Code, the bridal couple has to submit a birth record in order to get married. In some cases, those births were not documented, which happened frequently at the time of the introduction of the law on the civil records. For this eventuality article 70 provided that in order to replace such missing record an “acte de notoriété” had to be set up by the justice of peace. In accordance to article 71 of said Code a declaration of seven persons testified about the identity of the individual concerned and that is/was of public notoriety that such individual was born on the date of xxx in the locality yyy and was the child of the parents fff and mmm. That declaration was then signed by the deponents and the justice of peace]

Wow, I now have not only the marriage record of my 3^rd great grandparents but I also know the names of four of my 4^th great grandparents. This record tells me where they were all living and the occupations of all the men.  How fascinating to see the careers of my ancestors in 1824.  I also now know that I will probably not be able to find an actual record of Barbara’s birth.  Luxembourg has such wonderful records and how great that I was able to locate these on FamilySearch.

Now to learn more about the family of Jacob and Barbara.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

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Lost Heritage - Luxembourg Fest 2025

As genealogists we cherish our ancestral stories, photos, customs and food.  But what do you do when this was all lost over time?

My grandfather James Hammond (see post Celebrating the Life of James Jacob Hammond) was born in Remsen, Iowa.  All four of his grandparents were born in Luxembourg and emigrated here in the 1860s.  James’ mother died when he was five and he and his siblings spent time in an orphanage for part of their lives and at other times were back with their father.  As a young adult my grandfather wound up and raised his family miles away in upstate New York.  Were the stories, customs, and food of the old country gone because there were no siblings or family nearby?  Was my grandfather too young to remember and or were any memories he had too painful?  All I knew growing up was that his family was German.  After researching my grandfather’s family, I learned while they spoke German, they were all in fact from Luxembourg.  Over the years I have been fortunate to learn the names and ancestral villages of many of my ancestors back to the 1700s.  But even with the names, dates and locations that still doesn’t help me understand the food and culture of the area and country they were from.  Several years ago, I joined the Luxembourg American Cultural Society (LAC) in Belgium, Wisconsin.  In 2022 I was able to stop and visit the Museum and the Center on a trip across country.  I hoped this would help me learn more about my Luxembourg heritage.

For 39 years LAC has held a Luxembourg Festival.  I have tried to go for several years but was unable to.  This year I was asked to be one of the Presenters for Luxembourg Fest.  I was asked to do a presentation (see post Upcoming Presentation at Luxembourg Fest 2025) on basic genealogy, particularly in the United States, regarding researching our Luxembourg ancestors.  I gladly accepted because I was honored to be a presenter and I would also have an excellent reason to experience Luxembourg Fest and immerse myself in the food and some customs of Luxembourg. Best of all, I could meet others with the same heritage.  Who knows, perhaps even meet a distant cousin.

On Thursday, August 7^th I was able to attend the Annual Meeting of the Society for the first time. 

I presented at the Cultural Forum on Friday morning, August 8^th at the Cedarburg Cultural Center.  

photo courtesy of LAC (click on images to enlarge)

Jean Ensch, a native of Luxembourg, presented after me and spoke about the types of records available in Luxembourg.  

Jean Ensch and I -photo courtesy of LAC

Friday night there was a fabulous fundraising dinner Luxembourg Under the Stars to support LAC at the Buechler Farm complete with Luxembourg wine, beer, hard cider, Hors D'oeuvre, dinner and dessert.  

On Saturday there was the Luxembourg Fest Main Street Parade in Belgium, Wisconsin.  

What a fun time followed by food and drinks that the local American Legion was selling.  

A great chance to meet with other descendants of Luxembourg ancestors, talk about our ancestors and show our support for that heritage!  

Later I attended the showing of a 40 minute documentary talking about Luxembourg heritage in the US and the 38th Luxembourg Fest entitled "Luxembourg in America" by director Geoff Thompson.  There was also time to do some research at the Center.

Sunday there was a Roman Catholic Mass at the festival grounds in Belgium, the installation of the 

2025 Duke and Duchess

and more chances to eat some food typical of Luxembourg.  Yes, I finally tried the Treipen. 

There was also a Sheepshead Tournament.  

Sheepshead is a card game competition which is an American version of the German game Schafkop.   I asked my mother if she ever remembered my grandfather playing this game?  She remembered him teaching her a card game when she was young but didn’t really remember the name or how to play it.  Could this be some part of the heritage that endured?  I’ll need to see if my uncles remember this at all.

"The Luxembourg American Cultural Society’s mission is to preserve the roots of our heritage and nurture the leaves of ongoing relationships between Luxembourg and America."  What an amazing job LACS is doing in preserving this heritage!

Join and support your heritage societies.  You never know what you may learn about your ancestors and just experiencing the heritage can be so much fun.  Now to go on an actual tour in Luxembourg and hopefully, visit some of my ancestral villages.

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby

Upcoming Presentation at Luxembourg Fest 2025

 Luxembourg Fest 2025

Several years ago, after learning I had ancestors in Iowa who emigrated from Luxembourg, I joined the Luxembourg American Cultural Society.  Joining Cultural Societies is always highly recommended as a way to learn more about the country your ancestor emigrated from and as a way to possibly help with your research.  A few years later (2021) while traveling across the country I made a plan to stop and visit the Luxembourg American Cultural Society & Center in Belgium, Wisconsin.  What a treat this was!  I met some wonderful people and was able to do some research.  Maintaining my membership over the years was important to me and I continue to hope that one day I will be able to take advantage of one of the wonderful tours to Luxembourg they sponsor. 

Recently, I became aware of some long sought after records in German for my family on FamilySearch and LAC was able to help me get them translated. (See Blog post The Birth of John Bentz).  What a treasure trove of information I was able to find and continue to find!

An opportunity arose for me to present at Luxembourg Fest 2025 and help others who are beginning their journey of researching their ancestors.  As genealogists we are always excited to share our discoveries.  Ever the teacher, I also enjoy helping others on their journey.  

My co-presenter is from Luxembourg.  Jean will be presenting on records available in Luxembourg.  I should be able to learn so much more about the records available from his presentation.  What an amazing opportunity and honor this is for me to be one of LAC's Presenters, learn more about records that might be available to me for my research and experience my Luxembourg heritage at this festival!

If you have any corrections or additions or stories to share, I look forward to hearing them.

Enjoy the journey,

Debby